What the... static compile by default

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What the... static compile by default

Cédric Champeau
As much as I love static compilation, this should never have landed into master, at least not without an agreement. I strongly believe enabling static compilation by default using a system property is a bad thing. We already have an official, supported mechanism for this, which is documented [1], so adding one silently is not very nice. I reckon lots of users want to have static compilation by default, but I don't think a system property is the way to go.

[1] http://docs.groovy-lang.org/latest/html/documentation/#_static_compilation_by_default
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Re: What the... static compile by default

Thibault Kruse
Git blame seems to indicate April 13th 2018, and it seems to be
related to this ticket:
https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/GROOVY-8543

On Mon, May 7, 2018 at 11:05 PM, Cédric Champeau
<[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi folks,
>
> Sorry to be the bad cop again, but when the heck did this land into core:
>
> https://github.com/apache/groovy/blob/5443e87882f9b88169876f6d043ed54b5ae9023b/src/main/java/org/codehaus/groovy/control/CompilerConfiguration.java#L943-L988
>
> As much as I love static compilation, this should never have landed into
> master, at least not without an agreement. I strongly believe enabling
> static compilation by default using a system property is a bad thing. We
> already have an official, supported mechanism for this, which is documented
> [1], so adding one silently is not very nice. I reckon lots of users want to
> have static compilation by default, but I don't think a system property is
> the way to go.
>
> [1]
> http://docs.groovy-lang.org/latest/html/documentation/#_static_compilation_by_default
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Re: What the... static compile by default

Daniel.Sun
In reply to this post by Cédric Champeau
Hi Cédric,

      Feel free to remove any code.
      To be honest, I am really tired.
      Bye Groovy community.

Cheers,
Daniel.Sun




--
Sent from: http://groovy.329449.n5.nabble.com/Groovy-Dev-f372993.html
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Re: What the... static compile by default

Graeme Rocher-2
I hope you don't get discouraged Daniel, you are doing amazing work in
the community and currently you and Paul are the main contributors /
drivers of the project.

Cerdic - whilst I am sure you mean well I gotta say I disagree with
your approach to raising issues on the mailing list. There was already
a JIRA comments thread on the issue (GROOVY-8543) debating the value
of the system property and it would likely have been removed without
all this fuss, what is the point of openly discouraging folks who are
actually making a contribution to Groovy?

My 2 cents.


On Mon, May 7, 2018 at 4:59 PM, Daniel.Sun <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi Cédric,
>
>       Feel free to remove any code.
>       To be honest, I am really tired.
>       Bye Groovy community.
>
> Cheers,
> Daniel.Sun
>
>
>
>
> --
> Sent from: http://groovy.329449.n5.nabble.com/Groovy-Dev-f372993.html



--
Graeme Rocher
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Re: What the... static compile by default

Jeff Scott Brown-3
In reply to this post by Cédric Champeau


On 2018/05/07 14:59:09, "Daniel.Sun" <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Hi Cédric,
>
>       Feel free to remove any code.
>       To be honest, I am really tired.
>       Bye Groovy community.
>
> Cheers,
> Daniel.Sun
>
}

Daniel,

Please reconsider.  I think the tone at the beginning of this thread was
unfortunate and I expect that has contributed to your frustration.

Your contributions are very much appreciated by the community and you
should be proud of the work you are doing with Groovy.  It would be a
real shame to lose your enthusiasm and contributions to this great
language and great ecosystem.  I mean that sincerely.

Let me know whatever I can do to help.

Thanks for all of your great work.  Well done sir!




JSB
--
Jeff Scott Brown
OCI Partner and Principal Software Engineer
OCI Grails Practice Lead

Autism Strikes 1 in 166
Find The Cause ~ Find The Cure
http://www.autismspeaks.org/
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Re: What the... static compile by default

Cédric Champeau
Hi Daniel and sorry you are "tired". Maybe the tone I used was inappropriate?, but it wasn't directed at you personally. I'm quite surprised to see some things like that happening on master without any discussion on the MLs. Maybe that's because I expect too much from the developers of Groovy, but I strongly think we owe better to the community, and in particular code quality. In that area, we don't have _any_ peer review. Everybody works on master, and I think that's a bad idea. Things like this happen, but we have to realize that Groovy is used by tens of thousands of developers, so any choice we make has consequences. So, if we had peer reviews, questions like this wouldn't happen. Should you want to introduce a feature, it wouldn't go to master without a review from another committer/PMC. Same for Paul, and same for me. I think it's too easy to push to master today, and this bites us.

So to come back to the original topic of this thread, I never saw that ticket, and, for one, don't read every ticket out there, I mostly have time to follow discussions on the MLs. So I can react when I see something that looks wrong to me. Here, I don't have the impression that the ticket even comes to any conclusion, it just "happened". I still think the approach is incorrect, I'd typically very much prefer a custom file extension for example. And if it's just for internal testing, the compiler configuration already has everything we need without having to rely on a system property. We have to realize that adding a property without testing it in combination with other flags is a problem too.

That said, since I'm not contributing code anymore (my last contribution was rewriting most of the build, which I hope was helpful), I'm happy to step down and let you work as you wish. I mostly want to make sure Groovy goes in the right direction. If I'm a blocker, I have no problem with that.

2018-05-07 17:40 GMT+02:00 Jeff Scott Brown <[hidden email]>:


On 2018/05/07 14:59:09, "Daniel.Sun" <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi Cédric,

      Feel free to remove any code.
      To be honest, I am really tired.
      Bye Groovy community.

Cheers,
Daniel.Sun

}

Daniel,

Please reconsider.  I think the tone at the beginning of this thread was unfortunate and I expect that has contributed to your frustration.

Your contributions are very much appreciated by the community and you should be proud of the work you are doing with Groovy.  It would be a real shame to lose your enthusiasm and contributions to this great language and great ecosystem.  I mean that sincerely.

Let me know whatever I can do to help.

Thanks for all of your great work.  Well done sir!




JSB
--
Jeff Scott Brown
OCI Partner and Principal Software Engineer
OCI Grails Practice Lead

Autism Strikes 1 in 166
Find The Cause ~ Find The Cure
http://www.autismspeaks.org/

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Re: What the... static compile by default

Sergio Del Amo
In reply to this post by Daniel.Sun
Daniel, please note your contribution to Groovy has not gone without notice. Personally, I am very grateful for the work you have done. Moreover, I am grateful for the enthusiasm towards twitter you have shown in every email and tweet. It has been awesome and contagious.  I hope you stay in the Groovy Community because without any doubt you make it better. 

Sergio del Amo

On 7 May 2018 at 16:59, Daniel.Sun <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi Cédric,

      Feel free to remove any code.
      To be honest, I am really tired.
      Bye Groovy community.

Cheers,
Daniel.Sun




--
Sent from: http://groovy.329449.n5.nabble.com/Groovy-Dev-f372993.html



--
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http://softamo.com
http://sergiodelamo.es
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Hazte fan en facebook: http://www.facebook.com/sergiodelamocaballero
email: [hidden email]
Tfno: +34 949 31 48 86 / +34 630442973
MG
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Re: What the... static compile by default

MG
In reply to this post by Daniel.Sun
Hi Daniel,

is that a quote of someone who has left the project at some point or you yourself talking ? If it is you: I get your frustation and - don't go :-)

Technically, would a "compile static" compiler switch be a compromise, or has this alteady been ruled out (if the switch had the lowest priority, it should not collide with all the existing ways to apply @CompileStatic to Groovy code) ?

Cheers,
mg

-------- Ursprüngliche Nachricht --------
Von: "Daniel.Sun" <[hidden email]>
Datum: 07.05.18 16:59 (GMT+01:00)
Betreff: Re: What the... static compile by default

Hi Cédric,

      Feel free to remove any code.
      To be honest, I am really tired.
      Bye Groovy community.

Cheers,
Daniel.Sun




--
Sent from: http://groovy.329449.n5.nabble.com/Groovy-Dev-f372993.html
MG
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Re: What the... static compile by default

MG
In reply to this post by Daniel.Sun
Hi Daniel,

is that a quote of someone who has left the project at some point or you yourself talking ? If it is you: I get your frustation and - don't go :-)

Technically, would a "compile static" compiler switch be a compromise, or has this alteady been ruled out (if the switch had the lowest priority, it should not collide with all the existing ways to apply @CompileStatic to Groovy code) ?

Cheers,
mg

-------- Ursprüngliche Nachricht --------
Von: "Daniel.Sun" <[hidden email]>
Datum: 07.05.18 16:59 (GMT+01:00)
Betreff: Re: What the... static compile by default

Hi Cédric,

      Feel free to remove any code.
      To be honest, I am really tired.
      Bye Groovy community.

Cheers,
Daniel.Sun




--
Sent from: http://groovy.329449.n5.nabble.com/Groovy-Dev-f372993.html
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Re: What the... static compile by default

Graeme Rocher-2
In reply to this post by Cédric Champeau
Hi Cedric,

I don't think anybody wants anybody to step down (whether that be you,
Daniel or whoever) and you make valid points about processes that
could be improved. I would however encourage you to re-read your
original email to understand how it may impact others. Maybe adjust
the tone of your emails since this is not the first email of that
nature. Starting off being the bad cop and usage of phrases like "when
the heck" it came across as aggressive and I can understand why Daniel
and possibly others would feel discouraged. I know however your
intention is good and maybe it is a language thing. We all want the
best for Groovy at the end of the day.

Cheers

On Mon, May 7, 2018 at 5:54 PM, Cédric Champeau
<[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi Daniel and sorry you are "tired". Maybe the tone I used was
> inappropriate?, but it wasn't directed at you personally. I'm quite
> surprised to see some things like that happening on master without any
> discussion on the MLs. Maybe that's because I expect too much from the
> developers of Groovy, but I strongly think we owe better to the community,
> and in particular code quality. In that area, we don't have _any_ peer
> review. Everybody works on master, and I think that's a bad idea. Things
> like this happen, but we have to realize that Groovy is used by tens of
> thousands of developers, so any choice we make has consequences. So, if we
> had peer reviews, questions like this wouldn't happen. Should you want to
> introduce a feature, it wouldn't go to master without a review from another
> committer/PMC. Same for Paul, and same for me. I think it's too easy to push
> to master today, and this bites us.
>
> So to come back to the original topic of this thread, I never saw that
> ticket, and, for one, don't read every ticket out there, I mostly have time
> to follow discussions on the MLs. So I can react when I see something that
> looks wrong to me. Here, I don't have the impression that the ticket even
> comes to any conclusion, it just "happened". I still think the approach is
> incorrect, I'd typically very much prefer a custom file extension for
> example. And if it's just for internal testing, the compiler configuration
> already has everything we need without having to rely on a system property.
> We have to realize that adding a property without testing it in combination
> with other flags is a problem too.
>
> That said, since I'm not contributing code anymore (my last contribution was
> rewriting most of the build, which I hope was helpful), I'm happy to step
> down and let you work as you wish. I mostly want to make sure Groovy goes in
> the right direction. If I'm a blocker, I have no problem with that.
>
> 2018-05-07 17:40 GMT+02:00 Jeff Scott Brown <[hidden email]>:
>>
>>
>>
>> On 2018/05/07 14:59:09, "Daniel.Sun" <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi Cédric,
>>>
>>>       Feel free to remove any code.
>>>       To be honest, I am really tired.
>>>       Bye Groovy community.
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> Daniel.Sun
>>>
>> }
>>
>> Daniel,
>>
>> Please reconsider.  I think the tone at the beginning of this thread was
>> unfortunate and I expect that has contributed to your frustration.
>>
>> Your contributions are very much appreciated by the community and you
>> should be proud of the work you are doing with Groovy.  It would be a real
>> shame to lose your enthusiasm and contributions to this great language and
>> great ecosystem.  I mean that sincerely.
>>
>> Let me know whatever I can do to help.
>>
>> Thanks for all of your great work.  Well done sir!
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> JSB
>> --
>> Jeff Scott Brown
>> OCI Partner and Principal Software Engineer
>> OCI Grails Practice Lead
>>
>> Autism Strikes 1 in 166
>> Find The Cause ~ Find The Cure
>> http://www.autismspeaks.org/
>
>



--
Graeme Rocher
1234