Groovy on Rails is no more (kind of)

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Groovy on Rails is no more (kind of)

graemer
Dear Groovy & Grails Community,

I have been contacted by David Heinemeier Hansson, project lead and
creator of Ruby on Rails, and he has requested that we no longer use
the "on Rails" suffix or the name "Groovy on Rails". So out of respect
for David and not wanting to start a flame war with the Ruby community
we shall oblige and Groovy on Rails will now simply be known as
Grails.

--
Graeme Rocher
Grails Project Lead
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Re: Groovy on Rails is no more (kind of)

Antonio Gallardo
Graeme Rocher escribió:
> Dear Groovy & Grails Community,
>
> I have been contacted by David Heinemeier Hansson, project lead and
> creator of Ruby on Rails, and he has requested that we no longer use
> the "on Rails" suffix or the name "Groovy on Rails". So out of respect
> for David and not wanting to start a flame war with the Ruby community
> we shall oblige and Groovy on Rails will now simply be known as
> Grails.
>  
Hi Graeme,

This is my first post in this list. I've been lurking in this list for a
week now. Let me introduce myself, 2 years ago we integrated groovy on
Apache cocoon using BSF. For a simple demo see [1]. Now, I have plans to
create better samples of groovy in cocoon and perhaps start working more
groovy integration in cocoon. I plan to test grails and my first
impression was: "It's a Ruby on Rails copy-of". Having a similar name
suggest that and IMHO, is not a good idea after all. Should we change
the name?

Best Regards,

Antonio Gallardo.

[1] http://cocoon.zones.apache.org/demos/21branch/samples/blocks/bsf/welcome

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Re: Groovy on Rails is no more (kind of)

graemer
On 3/30/06, Antonio Gallardo <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Graeme Rocher escribió:
> > Dear Groovy & Grails Community,
> >
> > I have been contacted by David Heinemeier Hansson, project lead and
> > creator of Ruby on Rails, and he has requested that we no longer use
> > the "on Rails" suffix or the name "Groovy on Rails". So out of respect
> > for David and not wanting to start a flame war with the Ruby community
> > we shall oblige and Groovy on Rails will now simply be known as
> > Grails.

> >
> Hi Graeme,
>
> This is my first post in this list. I've been lurking in this list for a
> week now. Let me introduce myself, 2 years ago we integrated groovy on
> Apache cocoon using BSF. For a simple demo see [1]. Now, I have plans to
> create better samples of groovy in cocoon and perhaps start working more
> groovy integration in cocoon. I plan to test grails and my first
> impression was: "It's a Ruby on Rails copy-of". Having a similar name
> suggest that and IMHO, is not a good idea after all. Should we change
> the name?
Hi Antonio,

You'd actually be interested to know that i have a lot of experience
with cocoon myself a colleague (in fact a good friend) of mine wrote
the book "The Cocoon Developers Handbook" and credits me in the front
for contributing help and ideas. I've written a CMS system in Cocoon
for the digital TV and and used it to integrate SOAP services with
multi-channel clients so i have an advanced knowledge of it.

I have also used Groovy with Cocoon to write Cocoon actions and
generators, so I  could help you out as I'm familiar with its
architecture.

With regards to the name I do see the point many are making, but we
have established our own identity through the use of the "Holy Grails"
symbolisms on the website and Grails is definitely not a Rails
"copy-of". You just have to look at some of the features you won't
find in rais like:

* Dynamic tag libraries
* Services
* Page flows (in the future)
* Dependency Injection
* GORM which is very differnt to ActiveRecord
* Advanced Hibernate Integration

Yes there it is clearly influenced heavily by Rails' architecture and
ideas, but it is also very different in many ways so maybe a different
name is appropriate. I wouldn't like to lose the symbolism and we've
established though

Cheers
Graeme
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Antonio Gallardo.
>
> [1] http://cocoon.zones.apache.org/demos/21branch/samples/blocks/bsf/welcome
>
>


--
Graeme Rocher
Grails Project Lead
http://grails.codehaus.org
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Re: Groovy on Rails is no more (kind of)

calathus

I have also used Groovy with Cocoon to write Cocoon actions and
generators, so I  could help you out as I'm familiar with its
architecture.

Do you have any plan to support native XML DB instead of RDB in Grails?
I think if we have such system, we will not have to use Cocoon. It will be useful for developing CMS like  system.

C
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Re: Groovy on Rails is no more (kind of)

graemer
On 3/31/06, calathus <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> >
> > I have also used Groovy with Cocoon to write Cocoon actions and
> > generators, so I  could help you out as I'm familiar with its
> > architecture.
> >
> >
> Do you have any plan to support native XML DB instead of RDB in Grails?
> I think if we have such system, we will not have to use Cocoon. It will be
> useful for developing CMS like  system.
No immediate plans no, thats not to say its not possibly, but the
relational model is still a good one and I don't agree that you need
an XML DB to store XML content in a database.

I'm currently writing a bespoke CMS in Grails and storing my XML in
the database directly.

But if its something you need i encourage you to come up with
proposals and of course we are always on the look out for
contributions ;-)

Graeme
>
> C
>
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Re: Groovy on Rails is no more (kind of)

Antonio Gallardo
In reply to this post by graemer
Hi Graeme,

Thanks for your reply!

Graeme Rocher escribió:

> On 3/30/06, Antonio Gallardo <[hidden email]> wrote:
>  
>> Graeme Rocher escribió:
>>    
> Hi Antonio,
>
> You'd actually be interested to know that i have a lot of experience
> with cocoon myself a colleague (in fact a good friend) of mine wrote
> the book "The Cocoon Developers Handbook" and credits me in the front
> for contributing help and ideas. I've written a CMS system in Cocoon
> for the digital TV and and used it to integrate SOAP services with
> multi-channel clients so i have an advanced knowledge of it.
>
> I have also used Groovy with Cocoon to write Cocoon actions and
> generators, so I  could help you out as I'm familiar with its
> architecture.
>  
This is really very nice to hear. My initial idea is to write some
samples in groovy and SQL. More or less something like:

http://cocoon.zones.apache.org/demos/21branch/samples/blocks/forms/sql/do_list_employees

> With regards to the name I do see the point many are making, but we
> have established our own identity through the use of the "Holy Grails"
> symbolisms on the website and Grails is definitely not a Rails
> "copy-of". You just have to look at some of the features you won't
> find in rais like:
>
> * Dynamic tag libraries
> * Services
> * Page flows (in the future)
> * Dependency Injection
> * GORM which is very differnt to ActiveRecord
> * Advanced Hibernate Integration
>  
Great! I will like to see more about page flow. As you know, in cocoon
we have flow engines based on java and javascript. cca. 18 months ago I
tried for 1 day to implement a flow engine using groovy. Unfortunately,
I failed. I think part of my failure was because I didn't dedicate more
time to the issue + my bad groovy knowledge + lack of support and maybe
also because groovy was not so polished at it is now. Anyhow, I keep
with the idea in my mind and I will like to attract more cocoon
developers to groovy through simple SQL samples. Later I will like to
try again an implementation of a flow engine using groovy.

I think that groovy is the way to go for java developers. Groovy
integrates more "natural" to java than any other language outside. This
if why I've had a big faith in groovy.

Best Regards,

Antonio Gallardo.