Alternative JVM with Groovy (Azul,...) ?

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MG
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Alternative JVM with Groovy (Azul,...) ?

MG
Hi,

I would be interested to hear if anyone has experience with using alternative JVMs with Groovy, especially Azul (https://www.azul.com/) ?

Licensing costs for long term OpenJDK support seem to be much lower, and the JVM has additional benefits such as an elastic memory model (JVM memory is dynamically allocated/deallocated from the os), continuous concurrent garbage collection without freeze-the-world fallback, and application startup (warmup) time improvements.
But I am worried about Groovy compatibility (they only mention Scala explicitly on the web page)...

Cheers,
mg


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Re: Alternative JVM with Groovy (Azul,...) ?

Eric Helgeson
Hi,

It used to be the case that OpenJDK and OracleJDK  had quite a few differences in terms of performance and compatibility. But that is no longer the case in my experience & should be no technical differences in the near future:

[1] > [The] intent is that within a few releases there should be no technical differences between OpenJDK builds and Oracle JDK binaries.

In fact many IaaS platforms can only run OpenJDK due to licensing - so if you're running Grails on AWS Elastic Beanstalk you're already using OpenJDK (which we do).

Since AWS uses OpenJDK I've been using Azul on my Mac (via sdkman) for quite some time and have not noticed any incompatibilities or differences when running Grails or other small groovy apps/scripts.

With Oracle's new release cadence and no overlapping support timelines[2] - I don't see how any non-oracle-paying java users could use anything but OpenJDK. For me I don't want to spend time upgrading my JDK - would rather ship customers features :)

Just my 2c & experience,
-Eric

PS: Maybe worth reaching out to Azul and asking what tests they did to mention Scala - and to add Groovy there too :D

On Thu, Mar 8, 2018 at 6:09 AM mg <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi,

I would be interested to hear if anyone has experience with using alternative JVMs with Groovy, especially Azul (https://www.azul.com/) ?

Licensing costs for long term OpenJDK support seem to be much lower, and the JVM has additional benefits such as an elastic memory model (JVM memory is dynamically allocated/deallocated from the os), continuous concurrent garbage collection without freeze-the-world fallback, and application startup (warmup) time improvements.
But I am worried about Groovy compatibility (they only mention Scala explicitly on the web page)...

Cheers,
mg


--

-Eric Helgeson

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Re: Alternative JVM with Groovy (Azul,...) ?

Russel Winder-3
In reply to this post by MG
On Thu, 2018-03-08 at 13:09 +0100, mg wrote:

> Hi,
> I would be interested to hear if anyone has experience with using
> alternative JVMs with Groovy, especially Azul (https://www.azul.com/)
> ?
> Licensing costs for long term OpenJDK support seem to be much lower,
> and the JVM has additional benefits such as an elastic memory model
> (JVM memory is dynamically allocated/deallocated from the os),
> continuous concurrent garbage collection without freeze-the-world
> fallback, and application startup (warmup) time improvements.But I am
> worried about Groovy compatibility (they only mention Scala
> explicitly on the web page)...
> Cheers,mg
On Debian Sid I use Azul JDKs (Zulu 8 and Zulu 9) because they provide
a deb repository and it is easy. On Fedora Rawhide I use the Fedora
provided OpenJDK, Azul do not provide a Fedora rawhide rpm repository,
but they do provide a RHEL/CentOS one. Why not the Debian provided
OpenJDK and ignore Azul? It comes down to being told Debian Sid OpenJDK
was unreliable and that I should trust Azul.

I have discovered some incompatibilities of Groovy 2.4.14 running on
Zulu 8 compared to Zulu 9. I have yet to try on Fedora OpenJDK to see
if it is an Azul problem or a Groovy problem.

I am not about to use OracleJDK ever again.

Obviously though I am always using the free versions, I do not pay a
licence fee.


--
Russel.
===========================================
Dr Russel Winder      t: +44 20 7585 2200
41 Buckmaster Road    m: +44 7770 465 077
London SW11 1EN, UK   w: www.russel.org.uk

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Re: Alternative JVM with Groovy (Azul,...) ?

Charles Monteiro-2
In reply to this post by Eric Helgeson

Eric:


I don’t see Azul on seaman but I do see the Java feature from zulu.org ,so that is what you mean right ? thanks


-- 
Charles Monteiro


On March 8, 2018 at 9:06:01 AM, Eric Helgeson ([hidden email]) wrote:

Hi,

It used to be the case that OpenJDK and OracleJDK  had quite a few differences in terms of performance and compatibility. But that is no longer the case in my experience & should be no technical differences in the near future:

[1] > [The] intent is that within a few releases there should be no technical differences between OpenJDK builds and Oracle JDK binaries.

In fact many IaaS platforms can only run OpenJDK due to licensing - so if you're running Grails on AWS Elastic Beanstalk you're already using OpenJDK (which we do).

Since AWS uses OpenJDK I've been using Azul on my Mac (via sdkman) for quite some time and have not noticed any incompatibilities or differences when running Grails or other small groovy apps/scripts.

With Oracle's new release cadence and no overlapping support timelines[2] - I don't see how any non-oracle-paying java users could use anything but OpenJDK. For me I don't want to spend time upgrading my JDK - would rather ship customers features :)

Just my 2c & experience,
-Eric

PS: Maybe worth reaching out to Azul and asking what tests they did to mention Scala - and to add Groovy there too :D

On Thu, Mar 8, 2018 at 6:09 AM mg <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi,

I would be interested to hear if anyone has experience with using alternative JVMs with Groovy, especially Azul (https://www.azul.com/) ?

Licensing costs for long term OpenJDK support seem to be much lower, and the JVM has additional benefits such as an elastic memory model (JVM memory is dynamically allocated/deallocated from the os), continuous concurrent garbage collection without freeze-the-world fallback, and application startup (warmup) time improvements.
But I am worried about Groovy compatibility (they only mention Scala explicitly on the web page)...

Cheers,
mg


--

-Eric Helgeson

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Re: Alternative JVM with Groovy (Azul,...) ?

mauromol
In reply to this post by Eric Helgeson
FWIW we have been using OpenJDK (installed from Ubuntu repositories) to run web applications using Groovy in production for years without any issue.

Mauro

Il 08/03/2018 15:05, Eric Helgeson ha scritto:
Hi,

It used to be the case that OpenJDK and OracleJDK  had quite a few differences in terms of performance and compatibility. But that is no longer the case in my experience & should be no technical differences in the near future:

[1] > [The] intent is that within a few releases there should be no technical differences between OpenJDK builds and Oracle JDK binaries.

In fact many IaaS platforms can only run OpenJDK due to licensing - so if you're running Grails on AWS Elastic Beanstalk you're already using OpenJDK (which we do).

Since AWS uses OpenJDK I've been using Azul on my Mac (via sdkman) for quite some time and have not noticed any incompatibilities or differences when running Grails or other small groovy apps/scripts.

With Oracle's new release cadence and no overlapping support timelines[2] - I don't see how any non-oracle-paying java users could use anything but OpenJDK. For me I don't want to spend time upgrading my JDK - would rather ship customers features :)

Just my 2c & experience,
-Eric

PS: Maybe worth reaching out to Azul and asking what tests they did to mention Scala - and to add Groovy there too :D

On Thu, Mar 8, 2018 at 6:09 AM mg <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi,

I would be interested to hear if anyone has experience with using alternative JVMs with Groovy, especially Azul (https://www.azul.com/) ?

Licensing costs for long term OpenJDK support seem to be much lower, and the JVM has additional benefits such as an elastic memory model (JVM memory is dynamically allocated/deallocated from the os), continuous concurrent garbage collection without freeze-the-world fallback, and application startup (warmup) time improvements.
But I am worried about Groovy compatibility (they only mention Scala explicitly on the web page)...

Cheers,
mg


--

-Eric Helgeson


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Re: Alternative JVM with Groovy (Azul,...) ?

Eric Helgeson
In reply to this post by Charles Monteiro-2
Charles,

Zulu == Azul's JDK correct? https://www.azul.com/downloads/zulu/

-Eric

On Thu, Mar 8, 2018 at 8:51 AM Charles Monteiro <[hidden email]> wrote:

Eric:


I don’t see Azul on seaman but I do see the Java feature from zulu.org ,so that is what you mean right ? thanks


-- 
Charles Monteiro


On March 8, 2018 at 9:06:01 AM, Eric Helgeson ([hidden email]) wrote:

Hi,

It used to be the case that OpenJDK and OracleJDK  had quite a few differences in terms of performance and compatibility. But that is no longer the case in my experience & should be no technical differences in the near future:

[1] > [The] intent is that within a few releases there should be no technical differences between OpenJDK builds and Oracle JDK binaries.

In fact many IaaS platforms can only run OpenJDK due to licensing - so if you're running Grails on AWS Elastic Beanstalk you're already using OpenJDK (which we do).

Since AWS uses OpenJDK I've been using Azul on my Mac (via sdkman) for quite some time and have not noticed any incompatibilities or differences when running Grails or other small groovy apps/scripts.

With Oracle's new release cadence and no overlapping support timelines[2] - I don't see how any non-oracle-paying java users could use anything but OpenJDK. For me I don't want to spend time upgrading my JDK - would rather ship customers features :)

Just my 2c & experience,
-Eric

PS: Maybe worth reaching out to Azul and asking what tests they did to mention Scala - and to add Groovy there too :D

On Thu, Mar 8, 2018 at 6:09 AM mg <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi,

I would be interested to hear if anyone has experience with using alternative JVMs with Groovy, especially Azul (https://www.azul.com/) ?

Licensing costs for long term OpenJDK support seem to be much lower, and the JVM has additional benefits such as an elastic memory model (JVM memory is dynamically allocated/deallocated from the os), continuous concurrent garbage collection without freeze-the-world fallback, and application startup (warmup) time improvements.
But I am worried about Groovy compatibility (they only mention Scala explicitly on the web page)...

Cheers,
mg


--

-Eric Helgeson

--

-Eric Helgeson

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Re: Alternative JVM with Groovy (Azul,...) ?

Russel Winder-3
In reply to this post by mauromol
On Thu, 2018-03-08 at 15:53 +0100, Mauro Molinari wrote:
> FWIW we have been using OpenJDK (installed from Ubuntu repositories)
> to
> run web applications using Groovy in production for years without any
> issue.
>

Does Ubuntu just use the Debian OpenJDK debs, or do they build their
own from source?
 
--
Russel.
===========================================
Dr Russel Winder      t: +44 20 7585 2200
41 Buckmaster Road    m: +44 7770 465 077
London SW11 1EN, UK   w: www.russel.org.uk

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Re: Alternative JVM with Groovy (Azul,...) ?

Charles Monteiro-2
In reply to this post by Charles Monteiro-2

corrected: 

Eric:



I don’t see Azul on SDKMan but I do see the Java feature from zulu.org ,so that is what you mean right ? thanks



-- 
Charles Monteiro


On March 8, 2018 at 9:51:36 AM, Charles Monteiro ([hidden email]) wrote:

Eric:


I don’t see Azul on seaman but I do see the Java feature from zulu.org ,so that is what you mean right ? thanks


-- 
Charles Monteiro


On March 8, 2018 at 9:06:01 AM, Eric Helgeson ([hidden email]) wrote:

Hi,

It used to be the case that OpenJDK and OracleJDK  had quite a few differences in terms of performance and compatibility. But that is no longer the case in my experience & should be no technical differences in the near future:

[1] > [The] intent is that within a few releases there should be no technical differences between OpenJDK builds and Oracle JDK binaries.

In fact many IaaS platforms can only run OpenJDK due to licensing - so if you're running Grails on AWS Elastic Beanstalk you're already using OpenJDK (which we do).

Since AWS uses OpenJDK I've been using Azul on my Mac (via sdkman) for quite some time and have not noticed any incompatibilities or differences when running Grails or other small groovy apps/scripts.

With Oracle's new release cadence and no overlapping support timelines[2] - I don't see how any non-oracle-paying java users could use anything but OpenJDK. For me I don't want to spend time upgrading my JDK - would rather ship customers features :)

Just my 2c & experience,
-Eric

PS: Maybe worth reaching out to Azul and asking what tests they did to mention Scala - and to add Groovy there too :D

On Thu, Mar 8, 2018 at 6:09 AM mg <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi,

I would be interested to hear if anyone has experience with using alternative JVMs with Groovy, especially Azul (https://www.azul.com/) ?

Licensing costs for long term OpenJDK support seem to be much lower, and the JVM has additional benefits such as an elastic memory model (JVM memory is dynamically allocated/deallocated from the os), continuous concurrent garbage collection without freeze-the-world fallback, and application startup (warmup) time improvements.
But I am worried about Groovy compatibility (they only mention Scala explicitly on the web page)...

Cheers,
mg


--

-Eric Helgeson

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Re: Alternative JVM with Groovy (Azul,...) ?

Eric Helgeson
Hi Charles,

zulu.org it says "Powered by Azul" and the links on Azul for zulu point to zulu.org - so my assumption is they are one in the same.

Thanks,
-Eric

On Thu, Mar 8, 2018 at 9:01 AM Charles Monteiro <[hidden email]> wrote:

corrected: 

Eric:



I don’t see Azul on SDKMan but I do see the Java feature from zulu.org ,so that is what you mean right ? thanks



-- 
Charles Monteiro


On March 8, 2018 at 9:51:36 AM, Charles Monteiro ([hidden email]) wrote:

Eric:


I don’t see Azul on seaman but I do see the Java feature from zulu.org ,so that is what you mean right ? thanks


-- 
Charles Monteiro


On March 8, 2018 at 9:06:01 AM, Eric Helgeson ([hidden email]) wrote:

Hi,

It used to be the case that OpenJDK and OracleJDK  had quite a few differences in terms of performance and compatibility. But that is no longer the case in my experience & should be no technical differences in the near future:

[1] > [The] intent is that within a few releases there should be no technical differences between OpenJDK builds and Oracle JDK binaries.

In fact many IaaS platforms can only run OpenJDK due to licensing - so if you're running Grails on AWS Elastic Beanstalk you're already using OpenJDK (which we do).

Since AWS uses OpenJDK I've been using Azul on my Mac (via sdkman) for quite some time and have not noticed any incompatibilities or differences when running Grails or other small groovy apps/scripts.

With Oracle's new release cadence and no overlapping support timelines[2] - I don't see how any non-oracle-paying java users could use anything but OpenJDK. For me I don't want to spend time upgrading my JDK - would rather ship customers features :)

Just my 2c & experience,
-Eric

PS: Maybe worth reaching out to Azul and asking what tests they did to mention Scala - and to add Groovy there too :D

On Thu, Mar 8, 2018 at 6:09 AM mg <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi,

I would be interested to hear if anyone has experience with using alternative JVMs with Groovy, especially Azul (https://www.azul.com/) ?

Licensing costs for long term OpenJDK support seem to be much lower, and the JVM has additional benefits such as an elastic memory model (JVM memory is dynamically allocated/deallocated from the os), continuous concurrent garbage collection without freeze-the-world fallback, and application startup (warmup) time improvements.
But I am worried about Groovy compatibility (they only mention Scala explicitly on the web page)...

Cheers,
mg


--

-Eric Helgeson

--

-Eric Helgeson

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Re: Alternative JVM with Groovy (Azul,...) ?

mauromol
In reply to this post by Russel Winder-3
They have their own set of debs with their own maintainers, although they
use Debian source and patches heavily. Honestly I don't know whether they
use the Debian binaries as-is, but I would say they should compile sources
by their own because the package base for dependencies is different.

Mauro Molinari
[hidden email]



In data 8 marzo 2018 3:55:47 PM Russel Winder <[hidden email]> ha
scritto:

> On Thu, 2018-03-08 at 15:53 +0100, Mauro Molinari wrote:
>> FWIW we have been using OpenJDK (installed from Ubuntu repositories)
>> to
>> run web applications using Groovy in production for years without any
>> issue.
>>
>
> Does Ubuntu just use the Debian OpenJDK debs, or do they build their
> own from source?
>
> --
> Russel.
> ===========================================
> Dr Russel Winder      t: +44 20 7585 2200
> 41 Buckmaster Road    m: +44 7770 465 077
> London SW11 1EN, UK   w: www.russel.org.uk


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